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and so the -- the ways in which wayne lapierre tries to shatter off the debate have more holes in them than he realizes when he is trying to advance this kind of testimony. >> you know i hope what happens, had he testifies in the committee tomorrow is that the nra presses him on the second amendment. does that mean that citizens should be able to have massive fire power to fight a future government. they would lose credibility with their own base. there is a real dangerous current fed on the internet and youtube, of people talking very threatening violent language about what would happen if congress were to impose an assault-weapons ban, and other gun control measures like that
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father outline, which was quite well said. and i think mr. lapierre needs to address that, including even the conspiracy theories that are circulating among gun rights activists, who claim that the newtown shootings and gabrielle giffords shootings somehow were staged. he needs to be challenged on those issues. >> well, we'll see if he is up to that challenge tomorrow, thank you for joining me tonight, frank. the reckoning. let's play "hardball." ♪ good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start with this, the reckoning. put up or shut up, d-day. in a shattering moment this afternoon, president obama threw down the gauntlet. he demanded congress pass a potent immigration reform bill,
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one that fixes the problem of decades, deals with the 12 million people here illegally, stops the illegal hiring and exploitation of workers. so the challenge is out there right now right there in tonight's news packed and ready for tomorrow's newspapers. will it explode into action, light a firecracker under the republicans? will it detonate an avalanche of action driving teeth into the reform, ending the perennial talk that's led to nothing or to the old bogus reforms of the past? will the politicians get real or play more games of ethnic fear, economic exploitation, and wedge politics? was today the end of all that? could that be possible? let's take a hard look with chuck todd. you heard all my questions. i'm older than you, i have been through simpson/mazzoli. i know we're laughing about -- >> i love it's getting a comeback. >> we've tried it all before. we've passed bills that said it's got teeth in it and it's got amnesty for people who have been here for awhile. is this going to work politically and substantively? >> politically i think it's definitely going to work.
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politically there's the tune of the immigration debate, the fact you have business that needs this, whether it's agricultural, whether it's high-tech. business community is demanding at washington to do something about this, and then you have the politics simply of the hispanic vote, so politically this is going to happen. i kind of -- >> republicans control the house. what do they get out of it? >> stop having the hispanic issue as a wedge. to actually begin to have a conversation when the new generation of hispanic voters -- >> like george w. tried to do. >> republicans make the point, the number one issue with hispanics is not immigration. they're right. but they're not listening to you. the number one issue for suburban working women isn't contraception. if you're saying weird things like legitimate rape, then that voting bloc isn't going to listen to you on education, on taxes, on any of this stuff. that's what's going on. >> so that's the issue. >> what do democrats get out of it? why are they pushing it?
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>> hispanics have been demanding something on this, and at some point -- >> but do they want the teeth, the tough requirements of worker verification? do they want the tough part of the bill? >> i think -- yes, because if you actually go to places like arizona and new mexico, and i have seen surveys of hispanic-americans, hispanic-american citizens who say second, third, fourth generation, saying i did it legally. these folks should have to do it legally. i think that there is a -- >> i just don't hear that from the latino groups. >> no, they -- >> i don't hear the interest groups pushing for real teeth. let's take a look at the president today. >> the interest groups aren't. i'm talking about rank and file hispanic-americans. >> that's positive. let's look at what he had to say. he came out for what he calls comprehensive immigration reform. it was at a speech in las vegas. he said the bipartisan plan put forward by eight senators was in line with the principles he's for, which is very interesting. bipartisan approach. let's listen. here he is. >> but the principles are pretty straightforward.
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first, i believe we need to stay focused on enforcement. that means continuing to strengthen security at our borders. it means cracking down more forcefully on businesses that knowingly hire undocumented workers. we need to implement a national system that allows businesses to quickly and accurately verify someone's employment status. second, we have to deal with the 11 million individuals who are here illegally. we all agree that these men and women should have to earn their way to citizenship. but for comprehensive immigration reform to work, it must be clear from the outset that there is a pathway to citizenship. >> okay. your strength is in politics. went to a largely hispanic high school in las vegas -- >> you wouldn't know that. >> they applauded all the positives. they didn't applause any of the enforcement stuff. you're pointing out the flags.
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>> i think visually what's amazing, politics is a visual game sometimes, and what message is someone trying to say if you turn the sound down? i guess the president is patriotic, he's sitting in front of american flags. beyond that -- >> would have been better if we could have seen the young hispanic high school kids? >> i think it would be. this is about a younger generation of hispanics who, why are they coming to america? they're coming to america for all of the right reasons that we want america to be, the shining city on the hill, particularly -- >> let's talk about the key guy here. besides the president, who is always the key guy. here is marco rubio. i think he may have split ambitions. if he does it right with the eight senators, four democrats, four republicans, and they coalesce with the president, the president will get credit. he may be willing to share the headline here. here he is. he spoke to rush limbaugh today. this is marco rubio of florida. here he is. >> i know this is a tough issue. i do. i know why people are uncomfortable about it. it doesn't feel right to, in some instances, to, you know, allow people who have come here undocumented to be able to stay. i know for some people they're uncomfortable with this notion.
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this is a tough issue to work through. i think this is a significant challenge we face. i know the president is going to take us in a direction i would not be comfortable with, and i don't think it's good for america. i'm trying to do the best i can with what's already a tough situation. >> he's probably the only guest on the show to say undocumented workers rather than aliens. which is limbaugh's favorite. listen to how limbaugh looked at it. >> i have seen a number of research, scholarly research data, which says the vast majority of arriving immigrants today come here because they believe that government is the source of prosperity, and that's what they support. it's not about conservative principles and so forth. not the way it used to be. >> look, i don't know. i don't have -- i haven't done a scholarly study on the makeup. i can only tell you about the people i interact with, and i can tell you that the folks i interact with, once they get into this country and they start to work and they open up their own business, they start to understand the cost of big
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government. >> there's such a thing in politics and public affairs and commentary that's a lie. and what he just said was a lie. if you look at any road gang in america out there working on the roads, hispanics, if you go to the guys doing housing, roofing, guys doing lawns, guys doing sophisticated craftsman work in this country all over the burbs and the country. beverly hills, chevy chase, they're all spanish speaking and the idea they call came here for welfare checks. >> they come here to earn money. to send it back. to take that money, and they're sending, say, half of it -- they live on what they have to, and they're sending it back to try to support family -- >> i don't think hispanics are big on government anyway. i think they're trying to get away from lousy governments most of them. >> every immigrant, and i have studied this, and you have too, over 200 years in this country, it's been the same thing. during garfield's election, i love to bring this up, during james garfield's election, the state of california almost, you know, was teetering on the edge
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over the issue of illegal chinese immigration. we go through this as a society. we have these issues, but every immigrant population that's come to the united states has come here for the same reason, looking for work. that's all. >> the chinese were the most crime-free community in history. they don't cause anybody any trouble. thank you, chuck todd. let's turn to somebody who knows. he's a member of congress from that part of the country right down near the boarder, joaquin castro, democrat from texas. this is "hardball," and we're talking about whether they will get a bill that passes both houses, the one controlled by the senate and one by the house. you're a minority member. do you think the majority led by people like, well, john boehner and cantor are actually going to put their fingers on an immigration bill and pass it? >> i think they will, chris, and i hope they will. i think especially with the november election, the american people made it clear, i believe, that they want the congress and they want the president to tackle this issue and to finally get it done. i think what we've seen in the
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last few days is very promising, first with the senate proposal and now the president's proposal. at least we know we're having a serious discussion about it and we're more or less on the same field. >> i have always liked schumer politically and rubio, the fact he's with them, lindsey graham, i respect them all. given who they are. they're all different politics. are you surprised that rubio, who is obviously gunning for the presidency, has been able to make a deal with someone like chuck schumer of new york who is a liberal? is this something that can be done across the country, liberal/conservative compromise with teeth and also with something for people who have been here a long time and want to become american? >> there's no question. it's a wonderful turn of events, especially because of all the stalemates on a number of issues we've had in washington over the last few years. and so i was a bit surprised to see all eight of them standing up there at the podium locked in arms, coming out with this bipartisan proposal. so i think it bodes well for the issue. >> do you think we're going to
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get to the point if this thing is in effect or something like it where we won't be embarrassed by people racing across the border down the arizona line, texas line, people racing for their life to get jobs. i know their motives are good, they need a job. but the idea of a country where you race across lines and fences and you have to come in illegally, is this ever going to stop you think? i know it's petered down because of the economy. will we have people become guest workers or applicants or long-term stays here where it's actually done like a modern society ought to operate? >> i hope that we can get to that point. you know, as you and chuck were talking about, these folks who come over, 90-something percent of them come with the best of intentions. they want to work and support their families and, quite frankly, chris, these are folks that are desperate people often times whose kids are starving, don't have much to eat. they're not able to make a living in mexico or another country where they're from, so
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they come to the united states in the same spirit that the irish and the germans and the italians came, and that is for opportunity. and it's not to get rich. it's an opportunity just to survive. >> let me ask you about guest workers. it's always been a tricky thing because in the old days of nixon, it had a negative connotation. is part of the answer temporary workers that come up here for the season, they may work in agricultural, make a bundle of money by their standards, head back with it to their families, that way you don't combine working with immigration in every situation. are you happy with that or does that seem discriminatory to you? how do you react to it? >> well, i think, and you see in both proposals this path to citizenship, i think that path to citizenship should be available for undocumented immigrants. there should be an option i think or there could be an option for them to have temporary worker status if they're choosing not to become residents or citizens, but, you know, when you think about the dreamers and other folks who are not, you know, kids who are
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dreamers but maybe have been here 10 or 15 years and paid taxes and essentially have lived out many years as americans, we should give them a path to citizenship. >> you know, the hardest thing about this is trust. the conservatives, and you know it better than i do, you represent people down there in that part of a country where it's a touchy issue, a lot of conservatives will say i want enforcement first, and then we'll talk about amnesty or whatever we're going to call it. long-term path to citizenship. wait a minute, if you do that, if you seal up the border right now and, which is maybe not the most important thing, you insist on e-verify working, you can't work unless you're here legally. what happens to the 12 million people in the meantime? they can't work? in other words, it's the chicken and egg problem. how do you get to a better world in this country step by step in a way that conservatives will go along with, middle-of-the-roaders, and liberals who really want to see something done in terms of helping the people here. how do you stop the illegal action in the meantime? tell me what you think about the sequence. i think it's going to be a hot part of this issue, what comes first.
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>> sure. and i think you're right. the argument that you have had mostly from folks on the right is, look, we can't create any guest worker program or a path to citizenship until we secure the border, and that argument has a lot of resonance, but we have got to consider the moment that we're in. it's a fact that this president has committed more resources to the border than any president in american history. in 2004 when president bush was re-elected, there were 10,000 border patrol agents on the border. today there are more than 21,000. there are 652 miles of border barriers, including fencing, along the border. so this president has committed not only money but also manpower to securing the border. if we're going to hold this thing up, a path to citizenship, until we secure the border, then we've got to have objective measures about what that means because i promise you if you put rick perry and jan brewer on that southwestern commission to determine when the border has been secured, they're never going to approve it because it's not in their political interest to approve it. so we've got to be very careful if we operate in phases.
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>> be interesting how we do this. i hope it works. we tried it before with simpson/mazzoli. it didn't get enforced. i think you need enforcement plus the opportunity for citizenship. i think we all agree on the elements. it's putting this thing together that will matter. it's great to have you on, by the way, congressman, joaquin castro. your brother is great, too. >> thank you. >> he gave a great speech at the convention. coming up, civil war in the republican party. one side says only a moderate sensible gop will be able to compete. in the northeast and midwest of this country. on the other side are wingers like glenn beck. who celebrate the death of the establishment wing of the republican party with cake and confetti. and i think a dead body. plus, who is behind the strange alliance of neocons and gays trying to kill chuck hagel's nomination for defense secretary? we're going to get into that one. that's a favorite of mine. among those opposing hagel, a shadowy group who says it's pro-gay but buys its ad through a top republican firm. and "argo," "lincoln," "the good wife," "veep," there's no
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denying it, movies and shows about politics are suddenly hot. the great kevin spacey sits in this chair in a few minutes. he's got a new political show called "house of cards." it reminds me of what might have happened if john kerry had not been made secretary of state. let me finish with kerry's confirmation. it happened just an hour ago as secretary of state and thursday's hearing for chuck hagel as secretary of defense. i support both of them. this is "hardball," the place for politics.
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as i mentioned john kerry has now been confirmed by the united states senate. happened late this afternoon. he's the next secretary of state. in fact, he is secretary of state. the vote was 94-3. the only no votes came from both texas senators john cornyn and ted cruz and oklahoma's james inhofe. what a trio that is. the foreign relations committee, which kerry chaired for the past four years, voted for him unanimously. tomorrow massachusetts governor duvall patrick is expected to name kerry's replacement to the senate. that will be a big headline, the
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welcome back to "hardball." for months now we've been watching the growing gap between the establishment republican party and the tea party wings of that party. the tea party types are now the party's dominant force, of course. they have little use for establishment republicans who preach moderation and compromise. well, here is what david brooks wrote in "the new york times" today. quote, it's probably futile to try to change current republicans. it's smarter to build a new wing of the republican party, one that can compete in the northeast and mid-atlantic states, in the upper midwest, along the west coast as well. it could be filled with people who recoiled at president obama's second inaugural address because of its excessive faith in centralized power, but who don't share the absolute anti-government story of the current gop. would a coastal and midwestern gop sit easily with the southern and western one? no, but majority parties are usually coalitions of the incompatible. this is really the only chance republicans have.
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the only way to build a second gop. good question for this my two guests. michael steele, former rnc chariman, now an msnbc contributor, and bob costa, washington editor for "the national review." the democratic party for years was an unbelievably absurd coalition, northern liberals, minorities, southern segregationists, and they put together for people like adlai stevenson and roosevelt and harry truman and wilson. can the republican party rebuild itself to get a majority by building a coalition where they don't all agree with each other, where you have the rural people plus the more, if you will -- this will drive people crazy -- sophisticated suburbanites. >> i think they can and going back to my days as a county chairman to being national chairman, i preached that same thing. northeastern republicans are not southern republicans aren't midwestern republicans aren't western republicans.
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they all wear a different hat. but they wear them in their own style. >> all politics is local. >> all politics is local, and the more the party recognizes that this is not about a national republican party but a coalition of independent, you know, minded individuals who happen to be republican in some cases -- >> what about all those moderates that are told they could join the party and be part of the coalition? you know, that's nice, bob, but if they're not pro-life, if they're not against gay marriage, if they don't buckle to the rural republican party, the tea party point of view, they aren't ever going to be on the national ticket. why would they join a party that wouldn't join them as a member? >> it's a fair question. something the republicans are going to have to grapple with over the next few years. >> how do you grapple with it? >> we both grew up in the philadelphia suburbs. my big question is will the party elevate leaders from the northeast. is a chris christie going to be able to be a true national voice in leading the party in the coming years or is it just going to be the republicans from other parts of the country, the dean -- >> i know the answer because we had governors like tom ridge,
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war veteran, combat veteran, worked through harvard, admirable person. he wasn't right on abortion rights. didn't go anywhere nationally because cheney zapped him. you name me a guy -- christie is okay because he's pro-life supposedly, but all the other guys in the northeast aren't. so they're not eligible. >> it's a fair point. >> i know, i keep making fair points. you have to answer them. >> they had a big summit over the weekend in washington. we had a lot of people come and speak. pro-choice people, pro-life people, social issues, economic issues, republicans are grappling with all these issues. are republicans going to be open on gay marriage and abortion? >> what's the answer? >> the answer is unsure. >> here is bobby jindal. who's really got an ambition going. he took on his own party last week at an rnc meeting when he said it was time for the stupid party -- for the stupid party talk to end. let's listen. >> we've got to stop being the stupid party.
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i'm serious, it's time for a new republican party that talks like adults. it's time for us to articulate our plans and visions for america in real terms. it's no secret we had a number of republicans that damaged the brand this year with offensive and bizarre comments. i'm here to say we've had enough of that. >> mourdock and akin. he was talking about. last night karl rove, who is now an umpire, he agreed and said republicans must have more than an anti-obama message. let's listen to the oracle, the architect. >> i think he's right. he was talking about todd akin of missouri and richard mourdock of indiana and their terrible comments on abortion. the republicans can't be in mindless opposition to president obama. it has to offer a vision of the future that is attractive and compelling for americans to associate with. >> the problem is that the vision jindal and rove are talking about hasn't changed. only their messaging has. while jindal talks a good game, paul krugman pointed out yesterday jindal is proposing eliminating louisiana's income tax, which is paid primarily by
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the wealthy, and replace it with a sales tax designed to hit the poor and working poor. you're doing the same old hoover stuff, tax the people that get hit the hardest by economic recession and exempt the top people who make incomes, big incomes. >> but that's not necessarily been borne out in states like texas and new hampshire and elsewhere that don't have a state income tax, that do have a higher sales tax. so, you know, i get -- >> if you have a lot of tourism. >> i get the partisan line, and i think louisiana has a bit of tourism. so the fact of the matter is, you know, bobby jindal represents i think, as susana martinez does and others, this next generation of republican leaders out there who are doing it. >> what's jindal's message -- >> they're creating the laboratory in the states, which is why i go back to my point which this is not about national messaging. this is finding and accepting republicans where they are. >> you buy this as an intellectual who writes for "the national review"?
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you buy the fact that the republican party can become a coalition party, not a homogeneous right wing party? >> i think -- >> can you answer that question yes or no? >> yes. i think the republican party can succeed, but if you listen to bobby jindal's speech, he's asking a big question. too often he says the party is becoming the fiscal conservative party. he's saying republicans aren't going to back away on their position on taxes, talk more about growth, more about tax cuts, less about austerity. >> one way to kill prosperity is to tax people for what they spend. that's the dumbest thing in the world. raise the sales tax so if you save your little money, keep it in your pocketbook, you have more money. if you tax spending, you're bringing down consumption. here is jindal and chris christie and marco rubio who are thinking about bringing the party together, and then look at glenn beck dressed as a doctor pronouncing the republican establishment dead. let's watch glenn beck. >> here is what the media and the president still don't understand. we're celebrating the death of
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the establishment gop right along with them. yeah. i have got a cake and hats and like party streamers and everything today because they're dead. the gop hasn't stuck to its guns or its policies or its principles in i don't know how long. all they are is about winning. who should be in the tent? we need a bigger tent. that's the wrong angle. while the elephant may be dying and it's not dying, it's dead, what isn't dying in america is personal responsibility. >> is he part of your crowd? glenn beck? is he part of the republican big tent, that guy? that train wreck? >> if he -- look, see, i'm not going to make a judgment on what brings and motivates people to join the party -- >> he in or out? >> i don't know. i don't get to make that judgment. he gets to make that decision for himself. if he wants to pronounce the party as dead, that's fine for him. i would have a my issues. >> you're hearing this from a lot of conservatives. the party is struggling. >> do you like him?
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>> not like glenn beck but they want -- >> i don't like him. i don't know how to make an answer work. no, i don't like -- >> but that's your -- >> but you won't answer the question. >> i did answer the question. >> is he part of your party or not? >> what is his party registration? i don't know. >> he seems like he doesn't want to be a part of republican -- >> who did he vote for? mitt romney or obama? >> you'd have to ask him that. i don't know. >> i think i know. i think he voted for mitt romney. michael steele -- >> pretty good guess. >> robert costa. who is cruz to criticize john kerry when he never even saw a uniform up close. [ female announcer ] going to sleep may be easy, but when you wake up
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back to "hardball." first up, texas senator ted cruz is pushing the idea that if president obama supports something, it means a weaker america. he's talking about the nominations of john kerry and chuck hagel. here is cruz speaking at an
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event put on by the conservative national review institute over the weekend. >> okay. we've got two pending nominations, john kerry, chuck hagel. both of whom are very prominently anti-us, less than ardent fans of the u.s. military. my view of the military and foreign policy is exactly that of reagan's, that it should be driven by the national security interests of the united states, that we should go in with clear, defined objectives, overwhelming force, and then when we're done, get the heck out. >> does anyone believe paul ryan -- ronald reagan would have taken us into a hawkish war like iraq? by the way, john kerry and chuck hagel aren't fans of the u.s. military? oh? or remind the senator from texas that both hagel and kerry volunteered to serve in vietnam and have been awarded five purple hearts between them. senator cruz has no experience personally in the u.s. military and, as i said earlier, was one of the three senators who voted against confirming john kerry earlier today.
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also, hillary clinton reunited with australian comedy duo hamish and andy. she first met them back in 2010 during a visit to australia, and today they popped up at what's being called a global town interview or town-terview with the secretary of state. >> madam secretary, obviously a lot of good questions we had were taken earlier tonight by some of the wonderful participants around the world, but luckily we still have a few. probably the big question on everyone's lips is when you step back from being secretary of state -- >> well, she won't be able to be called madam secretary. >> you're no longer madam secretary. i think on behalf of all the global citizens, which of these three names would you like to adopt? >> we spent three or four months on this. >> incredible hillary? the artist formerly known as the secretary? or just hill clinton? but it does sound a bit like your husband. >> i think we're going to have to work on that list. >> none. >> none? >> okay. >> we will need another four or five months then.
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>> secretary clinton took questions from young people around the world over the course of that event. up next, a strange alliance of neocons and gay groups trying to kill chuck hagel's nomination later this week. that's ahead, and you're watching "hardball," the place for politics.
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welcome back to "hardball." after new york senator chuck schumer gave his blessing to the nomination of chuck hagel for defense secretary, his path to confirmation was essentially cleared. but the hawks who oppose hagel have only dug in deeper and the latest evidence comes from a newly created anti-hagel group called use your mandate. a group that has no website and an address that exists only as a p.o. box and anonymous backers who claim to be obama alleys. here is their anti-hagel ad. it's been on tv. let's watch it. >> chuck hagel, he's been nominated to be secretary of defense, and president obama nominated him with the best of intentions. but it's still a bad choice. hagel is anti-woman, anti-choice, anti-israel, anti-gay, and pro-assault weapon. that's just not what we voted
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for in november. chuck hagel doesn't share our values. there are other people who can do the job. why do we need someone like this? we don't. urge your senator to vote no on hagel. >> so why the anti-hagel backers in the group use your mandate so shy in a source close to the group told "huffington post," quote, those involved are choosing to stay anonymous because they're allies with the obama administration and hesitant to criticize the president publicly for fear of retribution or pressure from the white house. the source characterized members as a concerned group of people who have some questions about chuck hagel, including individuals who have fought for lgbt rights for a long time. oh, really? that just doesn't sound right to a lot of people, including many reporters and our own rachel maddow. let's listen to rachel. >> probably they're asserting there's some kind of broad democrat opposition to chuck hagel. we're just not allowed to know who it is. i'm not buying it. i call bullpucky.
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i say it's even money that this is the right running ads against hagel while pretending to be the left. i might be wrong but i call bullpucky. if i am wrong, there's an easy way to prove it. come out, come out, whoever you are. >> rachel as smoky. joining me right now two reporters who have done the legwork to investigate who is behind this group and what they might be up to. the great jim rutenberg and andrew kruczynski. jim, thank you. i appreciate you coming on tonight. i was curious when he saw the log cabin ads. they're not a well-funded organization but they seem to have an enormous amount of money to pay for a "new york times" ad. i said where is that money coming from? it's apparently, i don't know if you know this, but it's $140,000 to put a full-page ad in. i said, well, that's interesting. somebody is feeding them from the back room. what's going on here? are these hawks, neocons, so-called people that just want to go to war, they don't like hagel's geopolitics?
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>> there are definitely hawks who don't like his politics who are out in the open saying we don't want this to go forward. but then there are people in the shadows who are giving a lot of money for these ads who don't say who they are so we're only left to speculate. >> you were able in your reporting to come across the ad group out of the group that makes the ads which is a republican group. there's also a group called the emergency committee, whatever it is, for israel. that's two pieces, one partisan, one ideological to tell you where they're coming from, right? >> and they happen to share the same firm to buy their media. these are the firms that kind of put television ads on the air and some of the firms are partisan and it so happens the group they use, smart media is a republican group. they buy for republicans and republicans only more or less. >> let me be the most naive person in the history of television and ask you why don't they come out and say who they are and why they're opposing this guy? >> well, i think in "the huffington post" report they said they're gay rights democrats -- >> okay. >> but --
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>> hrc, a group i have worked with for years, almost two decades, is with them, they accept the man's change of heart as part of the country's change of heart about gay rights and certainly marriage equality and who are these people that stay in the shadows and say they have a problem with his positions on guns, on israel, on gay rights, on everything? it just seems like quite a potpourri and, therefore, suspicious i think. >> i mean, you look at the list of groups that would oppose chuck hagel who are gay rights groups who would be willing to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars who don't want to alienate the white house, and you think maybe the list is down here. you think of conservatives who are willing to do that, and the list is a little bit higher. so, i mean, i think the point is people are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars. we don't know who it is. they're saying they're gay rights democrats but the fact they use a media farm with ties to the rnc, christine o'donnell,
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i mean, it's very sketchy. i think people want to spend all this money to oppose chuck hagel, that's fine but the fact we don't know who it is is a little disconcerting. >> here is a statement from a friend of mine chad griffin, president of the human being rights campaign. one of the largest gay rights groups. he was conciliatory after hagel apologized for ace-tie gay comments. he said his apology and statement of support for lgbt equality is appreciated and shows just how far as a country we've come from a former conservative senator from nebraska can have a change of heart on lgbt issues. there they are. talk about conciliation there, jim. the lgbt community and under the name there of the great organization human rights campaign are accepting him as an ally. let me get back to you. you're a student now as a reporter of media. you have always been a great reporter of media. now how media works into politics.
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are we seeing more of this subterfuge of this, apparent subterfuge? >> i think this is just the way it's going to be unless there's a new law, the disclose act in the senate that we're talking about that would make the donors have to step forward. if that doesn't happen, this is the way it's going to be done now definitely for the next few years. expect more of it in the next two campaigns. >> people like the koch brother, i have heard them, i don't think adelson is the same, but the koch brothers believe they have the right to influence american politics big time with lots of spending, big promotion of certain candidates, big opposition to people like the president, and not to have any investigation of who they are, any exposure of their own personal or political involvement. is that a reasonable thing to believe in? they can have this power without any identity? last question to you, andrew? >> i think there are a lot of -- i mean, someone like sheldon adelson or other groups, you think about do they mind spending tons of money against chuck hagel? no.
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i mean, but are they going to do it disguising as lgbt democrats and you wonder if they're willing to go that far, but like i said, who is willing to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars and not have their name out there who is powerful enough that they don't want to alienate the white house? i mean, it really -- it doesn't -- it's very sketchy like i said. we don't know who is behind it. >> well, they're not the first wolves in sheep's clothing. that probably doesn't fit but it sounds like a historic combination. thank you jim rutenberg and andrew kaczynski, congratulations for coming on. just a reminder, tomorrow andrea mitchell will interview the outgoing secretary of state. that's coming up at 1:00 p.m. tomorrow here on msnbc. we'll be using parts of that but if you want to catch the whole thing, watch andrea at 1:00. political movies are hot stuff, and when can he come back, the great kevin spacey will be here. he's going to sit right here. he has a new political show called "house of cards" which is almost ripped from tomorrow's headlines if these headlines had occurred.
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maybe they won't occur but his show will. this is "hardball," the place for politics.
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senate republican leader mitch mcconnell famously vowed to make barack obama a one-term president, and now mcconnell finds some tough sledding in his own bid for re-election. a new poll by the louisville carrier journal finds just 17% of kentucky voters, about 1 in 6, plan to support the senator when he runs for re-election. not a good start, mitch.
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twice as many say they're going to vote against him. again, not a good start, senator. and to make things worse for mcconnell, democratic groups on the left if there are any in kentucky are vowing to work with tea party groups on the right to oust him during the republican party. primary. they're going to double-team this guy. good luck there, mitch. we'll be right back.
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welcome back to "hardball." anybody who watches "hardball" knows i love politics. another thing i love are movies and tv shows about politics, and i can't remember a time when there were more great films and shows to choose from. look at this. "lincoln," "argo," all on the sbig screen. sitcoms like 1600 penn and dramas like homeland, the president's favorite on tv. what this tells me is i'm not alone. americans are into politics
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right now, including the dramatic kind. now, the great kevin spacey has joined in with his entry the political drama "house of cards." he plays a house majority whip who has been passed up for secretary of state. a slight to tease up the conflict to come. he didn't like being treated like this. let's watch. >> is the president-elect running late? >> no, he couldn't make it. i'll brief him though. >> okay. this is the memo i've drafted on our middle east policy we've been developing. now, i want to borrow from reagan. >> i'm going to stop you there. we're not nominating you secretary of state. i know he made you a promise, but circumstances have changed. >> the nature of promises, linda, is that they remain immune to changing circumstances. >> i love that face. joining me the executive producer of "house of cards," kevin spacey. i was thinking of john kerry because i thought john kerry was going to be secretary of state
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and then susan rice. >> right. >> i couldn't tell if there had been some internation from the president that he was going to get it. so when i watched that tease there, i said oh my god, this is going to be like "wag the dog" when they knew the girl was wearing a beret before the girl was wearing a beret. this is going to be the art preceding life. so what is this? where did you get the idea? i heard it's "richard iii." >> the original book that was written by michael dobbs, he based his character largely on "richard iii." i think because he was in margaret thatcher's government, he was her press secretary, i think when he got out it was with a bad taste in his mouth. so he wrote this based on revenge and "richard iii" and iago. it came from david rebooting the series to the united states. we thought it would transfer incredibly well. it was a big hit series in britain in the 1990s. and they called him francis urquhart. i'm francis underwood, the initials still f.u.
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>> you played ron klain. >> right. >> you played an inside guy, inside, not king, not president. those characters seem more interesting today, the ones that seem inside the woodwork, the guys, the men and women that make the calls that hope for this, hope for that and do have these intramural fights going on. >> it's been really fascinating to me to learn about. the current majority whip kevin mccarthy met with me, was really generous with him time. so did steny hoyer, the minority whip in congress. and thinking about what it must be like to corral 218 senators to vote the way you want them to vote is kind of crazy. obviously we've seen in the last congress it isn't that easy to do. but i've learned a lot. >> what have you earned about ambition in politics? i think even secretary clinton, who is massively admired by me and everyone else, never talks about what she wants. she can never say i want to be president, for example. >> right.
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>> and you are doing a study in gross ambition. this guy wants to get ahead, get even with people who don't help him get ahead. >> look, it's really interesting. there have been incredible political figures in the past who now are sort of being reexamined, like lyndon johnson, for example. you start to look at how people are saying yes, he was ruthless, but he was also remarkably effective president in a very short number of years. so i think what our show has attempted to do on some levels is to have that moral conundrum of, you know, what someone does to get something done. it's like watching the film "lincoln" now. it's so fascinating that this character who for most americans is perhaps the most saintly of all presidents in terms of the way he is portrayed in history was actually doing back door deals because he needed the votes. he wanted to win that and get slavery abolished. and it's an amazing question about if someone does something that is dastardly and diabolical, is it worth it in the end. >> what's the connection between great actors like yourself. i've seen you do "inherit the
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wind" for three hours. >> that was very kind. >> i thought it was worth coming across the atlantic to see it. the amazing ego it takes to command the stage for three hours, bill clinton, that amazing confidence. it's not just reagan who was acting in politics. it seems all politicians have a dramatic ego. >> and some are better actors than others. some are not very good communicators. >> nixon, you could see right through him. >> yeah. and to some degree i think clinton is probably one of the best communicators we've ever had. and i think to a certain degree i think there is in the legal profession, i think in politics, obviously what you do, whenever you're in a position where part of your job is to convince your audience of an idea. >> yeah. >> that's true from an actor's perspective. you try to get a playwright's ideas across to an audience. >> you want to connect with my audience right now? >> sure. >> do you like obama? >> i love obama. >> thank you. you've done your thing. kevin spacey, loves obama, has
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13 episodes on netflix, "house of cards." it starts friday, february 1. go for it. when we return, let me finish with john kerry's confirmation as secretary of state and the upcoming hearing on chuck hagel. they're already going at him surreptitiously. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. [ female announcer ] going to sleep may be easy, but when you wake up in the middle of the night it can be frustrating. it's hard to turn off and go back to sleep. intermezzo is the first and only prescription sleep aid approved for use as needed in the middle of the night when you can't get back to sleep. it's an effective sleep medicine you don't take before bedtime. take it in bed only when you need it and have at least four hours left for sleep. do not take intermezzo if you have had an allergic reaction to drugs containing zolpidem, such as ambien. allergic reactions such as shortness of breath or swelling of your tongue or throat may occur and may be fatal. intermezzo should not be taken if you have taken another sleep medicine at bedtime or in the middle of the night or drank alcohol that day.
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do not drive or operate machinery until at least 4 hours after taking intermezzo and you're fully awake. driving, eating, or engaging in other activities while not fully awake without remembering the event the next day have been reported. abnormal behaviors may include aggressiveness, agitation, hallucinations, or confusion. alcohol or taking other medicines that make you sleepy may increase these risks. in depressed patients, worsening of depression, including risk of suicide, may occur. intermezzo, like most sleep medicines, has some risk of dependency. common side effects are headache, nausea, and fatigue. so if you suffer from middle-of-the-night insomnia, ask your doctor about intermezzo and return to sleep again. ♪
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let me finish tonight with this. john kerry was just confirmed as secretary of state. the decision by the senatet

Hardball With Chris Matthews
MSNBC January 29, 2013 11:00pm-12:00am PST

News/Business. (2013) (CC)

TOPIC FREQUENCY Chuck Hagel 15, John Kerry 11, Hagel 8, Texas 5, Glenn Beck 5, Kevin Spacey 5, Washington 5, Clinton 5, Intermezzo 4, Marco Rubio 3, Duracell 3, Bobby Jindal 3, Nixon 2, Lincoln 2, Ambien 2, Israel 2, Louisiana 2, Hallucinations 2, New York 2, Nausea 2
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